LLLL Domains: Domainers Gone Wild or Genuine Profit Opportunity?
Domain forums are filled with heated discussions about LLLL domains.
Some domainers say that LLLL domains are a wonderful opportunity to make money, while others claim they are merely a fad that won't last.
What are LLLL domains?
LLLL stands for any four-letter combination, such as LOVE, HWII or XQZV.
There are 456,976 possible four letter combinations (26*26*26*26) and in the .com extension, all LLLL domains are taken. The last available LLLL .com domain was registered on November 2, 2007.
Are they worth anything?
The prices of LLLL .com domains has increased very quickly, but obviously, some LLLL domains are more valuable than others.
4letternoob reports in the latest LLLL.com price guide that even the "worst" LLLL .com domains are now selling for at least $52 on the wholesale market. If you registered any below-average LLLL .com domain for $7 in October 2007, you could now sell it for at least $52… that's a nice 643% return in less than four months.
Just a year ago, at the beginning of 2007, more than 60,000 LLLL.com domains were still available. Domainers with sufficient capital and foresight were certainly able to make a lot of money.
What determines the value of a LLLL.com domain?
Obviously, LLLL domains that constitute a real word, such as LOVE, RARE or BLUE are most valuable. For all the other domains, general consensus among domainers as well as letter frequency statistics indicate that there are premium letters, average letters and bad letters.
- Premium letters: a b c d e f g h i l m n o p r s t
- Average letters: j k u v w
- Bad letters: q x y z
An LLLL domain that contains only premium letters (e.g. defi.com) will be considered more valuable than a domain that contains one average letter (anwe.com), two average letters (ivew.com) or even a bad letter (qefu.com).
Another aspect considered by domainers is the distribution of vowels and consonants, which is expressed by the most valuable CVCV (consonant-vowel-consonant-vowel, e.g. baka.com), followed by VCVC (vowel-consonant-vowel-consonant, e.g. ofam.com), CVVC (consonant-vowel-vowel-consonant, e.g. geat.com) and VCCV (vowel-consonant-consonant-vowel, e.g. opke.com).
Interestingly, several of the so-called average and bad letters are popular in other languages. For example, j, k, q, x and z are frequently used in Pinyin Chinese, while v, w and z are relatively common (more so than j or p) in German.
Demonstrating the English-language bias in the mainstream LLLL domain valuation model, Adam Dicker, the owner of DNForum, reports that he sold zwas.com and zzzq.com for more than 5 figures each.
Do LLLL domains have a future?
Are the recent price developments sustainable and can LLLL .com domains still be considered a good investment at this stage? After all, there are as many as 456,976 LLLL .com domains and if only a relatively small percentage of owners were to put their portfolios on the market, prices would undoubtedly go down. Another potential roadblock is the fact that many LLLL domains will never sell to an end user because out of more than 450,000 possible combinations, there will be some that simply aren't used as an acronym anywhere in the world.
I personally missed out on the LLLL craze, so take my opinion with a grain of salt: If the history of LLL (three letter) .com prices (up, up and up), the incredible enthusiasm on domain forums, and the rapidly growing number of active domainers are any indication, LLLL domains will indeed have an impressive future. In a very short time, they have become collectibles that do not necessarily need an end user to be considered a valuable asset.
Just like numismatic gold coins, which have collectible value and trade for much more than their gold content would suggest, or rare used stamps, which are worth a lot more than the paper they're printed on, but do not have any "real" usability value, LLLL domains meet all the requirements of being valuable collectibles:
- They're rare (all 456,976 domains have been registered and they're not making any new ones).
- Their owners are very enthusiastic about them.
- There's a large and constantly growing number of speculators and wholesalers that bring liquidity to the market.
- There is increasing demand among end users, particularly among companies that use four-letter acronyms.
- Last not least, many LLLL domains even have natural traffic and generate income through pay-per-click advertising.
As you can tell, I'm cautiously bullish on LLLL domains and I'll be buying more on the inevitable price dips we'll see over the coming months and years.
Finally, there's always .net…
Out of 456,976 LLLL .net domains, all all-premium domains are taken, but more than 215,000 domains are still available as of today, Feb. 23, 2008. Each of these available domains contains at least one average or bad letter. Before you whip out your credit card, consider that you probably won't see any profits until all LLLL .net domains have been registered (which could take more than a year), and that .net domains typically sell for only 10% to 20% of their .com counterpart.
I think xkcd.com worths much than many "Premium letters" dotcoms.
Hello, nice article there. But some of the info you provided are not totally correct.
For example, we ran a few pools at NamePros.com to define if W and U were considered as Premium letters or not and the majority of people considered both as Premium letters.
The letter U in Italian is used very much and also, the letter Y is not seen as worst one at all.
Years ago, the definition of what Premium or not Premium letter was created could be right at that time but in 2008 , where now China has overtaken Usa for internet users, everything needs to be reviewed. Internet is evolving and domaining is evolving with internet.
Nice article but I have to agree with Lorenzo… You refered to Reece's four letter domain price guide but in this it is clear that the letter 'Y' is way out ahead of Q, Z, X, J and K when it comes to valuing a triple premium with one 'bad' letter.
I also think its important that everyone differentiates a four letter dictionary word from a random LLLL.com. In fact on the same day that you wrote this article I worte an article about the need to section dictionary generics from sales data analysis. Very spooky - I only read this article today!
I have to say you are spot on with the reasons why they have become 'valuable collectibles'! Although, as you say, please take my views with a pinch of salt… I am a quad letter domain investor so my opinion will be biased in favour of four letter domains!
Rich
QuadLetterDomains.com
Very nice article. Really like the bit about 'collectible' nature of LLLL.com, very apt correlation.
I somehow don't agree at all with the definition of whats premium and whats not, it seems to be a 'domainer' only syndrome. And since u, w and y all have much higher frequency than B, what makes B premium and the other not?
I think the main price divide will be between pronounceable, acronym and collectible LLLL.coms, with letter quality coming in as a sub-parameter of the above sets.
Though anything probably bought and sold now will be looked at in a few years in wonder, just as we do now for LLL.com - even CCC.com has a higher valuation, which in itself is an aberration.
With LLLL.com = 26 times more than LLL.com - price of LLLL.com would be between 1/26 and 1/20 of LLLs - specially considering the size of the market at the two price points.
From last october to now might seem like a big jump, its going to be laughable when you see the growth between mar-dec 08 and onwards.
Nice article.
Unlike the other opinions stated above, I don't like the W.
I consider the 'W' as a bad letter.
The 'U' and 'Y' instead, I think are very good letters.
Especially the 'Y' in pronouceable LLLL.com's .
Quadpremiums are my favorite, and I think they are the best names to invest in nowadays, especially when you are new in the business.
For example -> AAFB.com
Nice Read and Great forum! I tell you what though once the market realises that there is only one way to go and that's up in prices regardless of premium or not, it will all be too late, just like the LLL.com.
And just another I think I would much rather a domain such as qqqq.com than if you gave me aaab.com
Dan Lew
You might think that W is bad and you might think that U is premium. This is all only your thoughts. There are statistics that desides what's premium and what's not. Do you think W is bad. It's your problem, because W is as common in acronyms as O or N. You might think U is premium. But statistics shows that V is more common and is more commercial than U in acronyms. You might like Y more than V but there is a fact that Y is the rarest and even Q is more frequent in acronyms than Y. However Y is good but only if it 's first letter when it means Your. For example YCDR.com = Your Core Draw. When Y is in middle then it makes word pronouncable - CYDR.com or CDYR.com then it sometimes even more valuable but less potential as acronym. And fourth case - CDRY.com is neither pronoucable nore good for acronym, howerve it's still brandable somewhat.
Currently market is slightly wrong. For example I'd prefer triple premium SVCA.com or SWCA.com to quad premium GNHH.com because SVCA and SWCA are more potential to become acronym than GNHH
Good post about the LLL.coms ! There are also some new opportunities comming like the LLLL.nets , the L-L-L.coms and a few others, for those who haven't invested in LLLL.com before the buyout.
Excellent breakdown of the different types of LLLL domain names and the relative value of each. And I think "cautiously bullish" is a good place to be. These will never have the value of true premium generics (dictionary words), but they will continue to appreciate for now.
This just seems like another attempt to dilute the worth of TLD names.. That's about it in a nutshell. If you have 100 or so years to sit it out, they may eventually come into use. I may pick think of a few and leave them on the side as a conversational piece. In the meantime, I will stick to domains of value, even if they are a few letters and numbers that mean something when read..!!! 2CNE1.com.. I8it2.com
Thats all4now.
Brad
I agree about the problems of defining 'premium' letters. It is not always that US domainers will choose what's premium and what's not. I myself see U as a premium since it is a quite often used vowel. In general though all values will rise, maybe the most-unpronounceable names will not get much over $100, but the best names will surely have a reseller value of $1000+ in less than a year… And average quality names will be in the middle for the small and new domainers to trade in price range of $100-500.
A new twist on the LLLL market may soon take effect. In a World view, ALL letters will be considered premium. Why wouldn't they?
Somehow, my post disappeared into thin air.. Or cyberspace.. Anyway here it is again..
My Question/comment was.. How about number and letters, if they actually have a meaning AND CAN BE DEVELOPED INTO A REAL PROFITABLE SITE?
Ex.
2CU4.com
2CNE1.com
2G02.com
2G04.com
4G02.com
4G04.com
4U2XL.com
All and any feedback is welcomed…
Brad
Hi Brad,
Numbers Mixed with letters will soon to be followed when people start panicking and not being able to get any more LLLL.com or LLLL.net or LL-L.com or L-LL.com at a small cost ($xx)
This has already began. The biggest Buyer and Seller of the mixed letters and numbers guy I know is the owner of website 4Ltr.org. He also deals alot of these names on ebay and flips them fairly regularly.
A very small example is check to see if no01.com all the way to no99.com is still available? and this will probably give you your answer you are looking for!
The mantra that so-called 'average' letters should be devalued has
led to some premium combos being overlooked. I'll give an
example. The combo of the two 'average' letters J and V together
in that order, either as the first or last two letters produces
some spectacularly commercially-viable "Joint-Venture"
or "Joint-Ventures" acronyms. Many combos beginning with J are
equally good. Letter guides should be just that, not rules that
blind to other possibilities.
I just couldn't agree more with Brad Christopher's assessment — right on the money.
In reading all of this "forensic nonsense" regarding the relative superiority of certain letters over others, I'm immediately reminded of other spectacular marketing scams throughout history …remember Heinz's attempt to convince the world that simply because their ketchup was "thicker" (and wouldn't flow from the bottle), it must likewise be "better!!"
It's just a case of "…dumber and dumber:" the only people "dumber" than the early speculators in random, nonsensical 4-letter domains are the "dumber still" fools naive enough to ever buy them with an eye for end-use (…no, I'm sorry, I take that back — there's an even more "inexplicably inane" category of domain investors, still …the "ultimate fools" who jumped all over the now-infamous dot.MOBI marketing charade!!)
Great article! I did a random scan of 100 LLLL's to see whether they were developed sites and about 1/4 are developed sites. Most interesting, though, is that there were a lot of Chinese sites, and they often used letters that are considered "bad" among westerners. Anyways, I will probably do more scans to improve the statistical soundness of this conclusion. I've also been looking at the NNNNN.com's, which were recently bought out. There are only 100,000 of these, and about 48% are developed sites according to my scans. Most of the developed sites are US zip code websites, and, like the LLLL's, a significant portion are Chinese sites. 2 of the top 100 Chinese Alexa sites are NNNNN.com's also. So I think the Chinese market is a huge factor that has not been given enough attention in the discussion of whether the recently bought out LLLL's and NNNNN's are undervalued or overvalued. Great site!
What's really interesting is that we're now in the discussion of four character domains, where a year ago, they weren't even in the picture for domain values unless you could PRONOUNCE them. However, with all the three character .coms gone, now four letter domains are big, not big as in huge sales (those without vowels or pronunciations), but just basic letters thrown together to hopefully form a brandable acronym or abbreviation.
I disagree with which letters are "bad". I think the only bad letters are Q, J, V, Z and K. However, you still can't say any combination of these letters still won't create a great domain name. Putting X in a domain can be very profitable if you have three of them, as in LXXX.com or other variations with three X's. Adult websites love em. Try and think of a great character combo with the letter J. Or even V or Z. You can throw K in there too. But X, and Y, nah, those are good letters. Y stands for "Youth" in about ten thousand acronyms.
The bottom line, each domain stands on its own merits, you can't appraise a domain if it has a letter in a "bad list". You have to look at the domain in its entirety.
good subject to cover. Good job, Rene.
Stephen Douglas
Successful Domain Managementâ„¢
BLOG: http://www.Successclick.com
DomainRelevance.com
"Own Your Competitionâ„¢"
I just think that the TRUE value in any domain name is how much someone or a company is willing to pay for it, period. That being said, the actual domain name has to be have a high brand ability rating and be extremely memorable. From either "Print" advertising or a "Radio/TV" advertising standpoint. Which means it should be fairly easy to pronounce and remember. If a company dumps enough money into their marketing and PR campaigns, just about any domain name is going to eventually receive traffic and depending on the content, repeat traffic. At my company we have a fairly modest portfolio of domain names, all .coms. Some are long with 3 to 4 (English language) words. The reason we own them is because "They mean something" to every English speaking individual and actually represent a product or service. Most of them are parked and we have no immediate plans to develop them. Others are parked and we are in the development stage with beta sites being tested. Without any advertising they receive most of these parked sites receives a higher than average amount of traffic. Just one example is GreenBuildingIncentives.com, it may not mean anything to some people, but if you're a builder/developer or if you're an environmentalist and remodeling your home. This is a site where you can search for a wealth of information that will help you to make some wise money saving decisions before you start designing the project. Just my 2 cents on the worth of LLLL.com's and domain names in general.
I just think that the TRUE value in any domain name is how much someone or a company is willing to pay for it, period. That being said, the actual domain name has to be have a high brand ability rating and be extremely memorable. From either "Print" advertising or a "Radio/TV" advertising standpoint. Which means it should be fairly easy to pronounce and remember. If a company dumps enough money into their marketing and PR campaigns, just about any domain name is going to eventually receive traffic and depending on the content, repeat traffic. At my company we have a fairly modest portfolio of domain names, all .coms. Some are long with 3 to 4 (English language) words. The reason we own them is because "They mean something" to every English speaking individual and actually represent a product or service. Most of them are parked and we have no immediate plans to develop them. Others are parked and we are in the development stage with beta sites being tested. Without any advertising they receive most of these parked sites receives a higher than average amount of traffic. Just one example is GreenBuildingIncentives.com, it may not mean anything to some people, but if you're a builder/developer or if you're an environmentalist and remodeling your home. This is a site where you can search for a wealth of information that will help you to make some wise money saving decisions before you start designing the project. Just my 2 cents on the worth of LLLL.com's and domain names in general.
All4Now,
Brad
The content is juicy. I tried to register directly four char .com. Even though i used word tumbler to generate a partial list of 4 chars and checked for .com i ended up in failure. But i found some of them are for sale at few forums at some optimal price [ say less than 15 bucks ]. If we got up with a meanimgful keyword it is okay may be .net / .org / .info it will be quite valuable rather than meaningless 4 char combinations
Regards,
B.K.Saravanan,
For http://www.collisiondomains.com
The LLLL fad is a joke! Come on guys, wise up. Would you rather tell someone your website is 2N5G.com or something they will actually remember like http://www.thisismysite.com !?!
The only people who will buy a domain for the simple reason how many characters are in it simply DO NOT SPEAK English!
Even 3 letters…. 5KF.com thats useful?
After 20 years of professional marketing experience, I can say NO.
norm-
2n5g.com is not a LLLL.com it is a 4 Character name CCCC.com
not the same
I don't care if it's .LLLL or .CCCC, if it is "memorable" it is worth more.. Period..!! It could have 4, 8 or 12 characters, comprised of two or three words.. As long as it sticks in your head, it is a domain name with "Branding" potential..!!
http://www.2CU4.com
http://www.ToSeeYouFor.com
We have both of them parked with no promotion and the http://www.2CU4.com get much more traffic.. Still analyzing if it's the landing page or what. But regardless, it does.. Something to think about..
All4Now,
Brad
I don't know how other domainers are doing with selling their LLLL.com domains, but I sold all of them out for good prices, and was going to hold on to my last one to build out for an online Military surplus store. GIHQ.com = as in "GI HeadQuarters"
You can't get the brand for this type of product any better. Four letters in a .com, describing exactly what you can expect at this website… Military surplus goods.
It can also be used as an AMerican Armed Forces website and forum for comments about the Iraq war, or just set it up to help our GI's when they come back from their tour in Iraq, or if they served in Vietnam, the Korean War, WWII and any other conflict where they served their country proud.
GIHQ.COM spells it out for all servicement and their families very quickly. I'm selling it for only $2500. 10% of the proceeds will be sent to Daily Domainer to help cover costs of operation.
Very nice article, Highly helpful for the purpose of analysis. Regular reader of such analysis could be very useful to learn about future trends, and careful analysis to invest on domains. I tried a lot to register a 4 letter LLLL created a list with a lot of pain [ nearly 20,000 combinations ] but all are registered i got astonished. It was a few months ago, i thought people became 4 letter crazy. If i learned this topic i might tried myself in some other best direction. But the sale of meaningful finance related 4 letter .com " FUND.COM" is a real rocket sale. The domain market got a new brisk from this sale. I Too.
Best Regards
1,2 and 3 letters domains are all taken 4 letters is the latest rush. I dont think 5 letters will be next.
This is a great article, and the points about the premium letters, average letters and bad letters I found particularly usefull, as I didn't know untill now which letters were premium ones.
The initial popularity of LLLL.coms i think have peaked now, as even LLLL.coms with non-premium letters were going for $100+ which was crazy to me. I think this is because the marked was flooded and the prices were overinflated and now were starting to see the true value come through, as i've noticed the largly non-premium LLLL's have become less sought after and harder to sell at the inflated prices, but the good ones are still doing well.
I suspect the value of LLLL's will increase again but not as widly as before.
great article.
-ES-
Being the owner of several LLLL.com domains - I know I won't part with them.
One of my domains has made CNN when they oops'ed and said a T sound instead of D … my counter went NUTS that day
Being an early adopter in the beginning of the web craze … I have a few LLL.com's as well … it's a rare day I don't get offers
Thank you ~ but not yet
In fact they mean enough to me, I have several of my children / and spouses involved, so "if anything were to happen" to me - our domains will continue
Go for Generic Domains -
Generic domains I believe will out pace brandable names for the simple reason that the domain bar is the most powerful search tool their is, brandable names will still have to be promoted and the costs may be extensive for the user to identify the brand.
An interesting point in history in 1900 - We see America’s First Auto Show Run Second To The Horse Show - I guess at the time many would have told Henry Ford the car would never survive, can you imagine.
We are at a time in history 100 years down the the track where the excitement of Henry Ford and his Motor Car, Thomas Edison and his wonderful inventions that paved the development of the 20th Century has been reinstalled into the hearts and minds of those engaged in the development of technology passing into the 21st Century. GenericGene
What does America’s First Auto Show Running Second To The Horse Show have to do with the value of a domain name that's memorable and sticks in your head? Again, (and at the risk of repeating myself) I don't care if it's LLLL.com or CCCC.com. In fact, speaking of "Horses", how about that site PedigreedPets.com :).. Does the domain name stick in your head? Well the reason I mentioned it is because a girl in our office has horses and visits that site often.
Again, always a pleasure to add my 2 cents…
Brad
http://tldnames.blogspot.com/
PedigreedPets.com :).. Does the domain name stick in your head? (It's a good name - Stick in my head - no not really - HorseNStable.com for horses is better.)
This seems as if it's turning into a conversation for plugging domain names.. http://www.EnoughSaidAboutLLLLDomainNames.com/ go get it.. rotfl :))
Brad Christopher on Apr 17th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Not At All
I was just joshing with you Gene. I didn't think you would have anything to do with such a cheesy site. Anyway, It's after 5:00est and I'm out the door, gonna go hit the DomainRoadway.com and sit in some T-R-A-F-F-I-C for an hour or so before I get home. :o)
Later,
Brad
I don't mind cheeeeese - have a good one.
About 10 years ago, I wrote a program that checked the availability of AAAA.com through ZZZZ.com and ended up with this great list (plus some others I've since sold, like eMrs.com)
AAAB.COM - for any # of acronyms, memorable, and at top of lists alphabetically
AAAX.COM - ditto, plus great adult domain
BBYO.COM
BYOI.COM - Bring Your Own Internet
BZZY.COM - Buzzy
CDEE.COM - "C D"
CDRO.COM - CDROM without the M, CD Read Only
EFRO.COM - like Afro, great for e-afro site
HINY.COM - Homes In New York or Hi New York, etc.
XLSX.COM - Excel's new format extension, i.e. spreadsheet.xlsx
"215,000 domains are still available"?
Can you name one?
Because every time I search for anything it is taken!
Is there a way to find them or can you make a list?
Also, do you guys think that after 3 letters and 4 letters domains the next thing are the 5 letter domains?
This is a case of domainers gone wild over domain names, especially when you are talking about a domain name like LLLL?
But in the case of a website of called "cars.com" I can see why this would be remembered and the same with love or any actual four letter word. What is more surprising to is that Celebs says that there are only 250,000 domain names left, does anyone know if infact this is true?
I do not know about 250,000 left - however, their are still some excellent buys out their -
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